Biggest lost opportunities for the PCE

[grahf]

I disagree about the SGX, Rover. I completely understand where you're coming from as a dev, but that thing was destined to failure. From a consumer standpoint.

I don't think the PCE had any huge missed opportunities, but I vote for Mortal Kombat as the biggest missed opportunity for the TG16. A LOT of my classmates bought a Genesis just because it had the "better" version of MK. Most of them already had a SNES. In my area it was Mortal Kombat, not Sonic 2, that pushed the Genesis ahead of the SNES for a bit. Mortal Kombat was absolutely huge at the arcades, and I didn't know anyone who didn't have it for a home system when it came out. It was one of the first games that made kids from all over my neighborhood get together for gaming sessions. Sonic 2 was an amazing game to have IF you had a Genesis, but you HAD to have a Genesis to play the cool version of Mortal Kombat.

I can imagine massive sales of TurgoGrafx if they didn't pass that one up.... The system was already selling for way cheaper than the Genesis and SNES, so it would have made a difference for sure.

[SignOfZeta]

Did not the SuperCD "fragment" the CDROM userbase? Not a hell of a lot of difference.

Yes, things were plenty fragmented by the end, but there is a huge difference.

Everyone wanted a CDROM system. Those that didn't buy one left PCE for SFC, but those that did pretty much all got a Super System Card eventually. Eventually, with the except of a small number of ACD releases, active PCE consumers were buying the same format of game, SCDs, and they could be played on PCE, CG, CGII, LT, Duo, Duo R, Duo RX, Laseractive, and even the SGX.

If the SGX became mainstream there is no doubt that SGX functionality would have been built into Duos, and cheaper Core systems further down the line, but the early systems would have been useless. Not just the white PCE but the Core Grafx also which was on sale at the same time as the SGX. WTF were they thinking? One of them had to be cut lose. Because the SGX was abandoned ALL systems could play ALL (non-SGX) HuCards, right up until the end. Formation Soccer, when it was released in 1994, was just as playable on a 1987 PCE as it was on any other PCE system. All systems that could play any CD could play all CDs with the right card. This is one of the coolest things about PCE, IMO.

[ceti alpha]

Damn. Who knew that the PCE/TG was Android of the day with all the "fragmentation". lol

[SignOfZeta]

I don't think any platform in history has ever been as fragmented as Android. It makes Windows look like the NES.

[SamIAm]

The Mortal Kombat fiasco probably ranks up there with the biggest fumbled deals in video game history. I, too, remember the MK craze, and I can name 4 people off the top of my head who definitely would have bought a TG16 if it had been the only way to play the home port.

Also, I'm going to join in and say that the SGX was a terrible idea. Remember how Sega went to the doghouse when they released the Saturn right after the 32X and burned everyone who bought one of those? They were making fun of Sega and the 32X on Saturday Night Live, for heaven's sake. The technology and the potential of the SGX is exciting, but it really doesn't make much market sense.

If you want to talk about never releasing the PCE and making the SGX NEC's base system from the start, that's a different story.

[RR1980]

I am not that familiar with the TG16's history was TG16 like "this close" from getting a MK port? what was the story there?

My guess is that NEC probably didn't anticipate the success of the PC Engine so they had the SGX in development to replace the PC Engine right from the get go but came time to release it 2 yrs later they were kinda caught in the middle since much resources already went into developing this thing they can't not release it but at the same time the pce was having huge success so they ended up doing what they did which was released it but abandoned it almost right the way. NEC would run into this situation once again when it came time to release the PCFX and that time they decided to delay it by a year which also ended up hurting them and ultimately ended NEC's role as a gaming hardware company.

[spenoza]

I'll disagree again here. The Valis series certainly has its low points (*cough* Valis II), but there is plenty of great action to be found in the rest of the games. Maybe super-high-speed runs through levels are a prerequisite for "good" action for you, but not me.

The biggest problem with the Valis series, and many of the other PCE platformers, is that the control feels stiff and finicky. In Mario games you know when you're at the edge of a platform, and as was mentioned earlier, Nintendo got the jumping nailed. In the Valis games I always felt like I was fighting my own character's movement and controls as much as I was the enemy. Valis exemplifies this problem, though it's by no means the only PCE game that suffers from it. Lots of NES games had this problem as well, but after a couple years devs seemed to wrap their heads around it and many companies, even smaller ones, were getting jumping, hit boxes, and platform edges mostly right. Meanwhile PCE devs weren't working with platformers so much.

[spenoza]

Regarding the SGX surviving long enough to be built into Duos...


Shit like this never works, and this would have been no exception. In many ways the SGX dying as bizarrely fast as it did (I'm sure it was effectively killed before it was even released) was a blessing.

If the SGX had taken off, then we would have been in a tricky situation. Were previous owners of PCE systems supposed to basically bin their old systems purchased just two years earlier? That would suck, especially considering the price of the SGX, and the CDROM2 (planed from the begining) combined. I'm pretty sure sales of PCE in that early period were some of the best the system ever saw too. It would have been suicidal to shit on that customer base.

That is certainly one possibility, but what about this other possibility... What if the CD-ROM attachment had included extra hardware capabilities, like the extra hardware in the SGX. Could the expansion port have allowed for this? What if the stock CD unit basically upgraded the system? Under those circumstances the only people who would have been left out would be people who don't buy a CD-ROM upgrade. That might have been a way around all this. Given how expensive the CD-ROM was upon release, adding in some extra power would likely not have had a major impact on the peripheral's price, assuming it's technically possible.

[fragmare]

Where do you even BEGIN to list the PCE/TG16's missed opportunities???  There are so many!  As was mentioned previously in this thread, the SuperGrafx in and of itself a was a HUGE missed opportunity.  Maybe not in Japan.  That thing was going to fail there, no matter what.  But if they'd have delayed the US release a few months and released the SGX here in the US with, say, 50+ quality PCE games, the western market (for the most part) wouldn't have even known any better that it was derived from inferior hardware.  Then you'd have a situation where the PCE was still getting plenty of support in Japan and the SGX would have been getting support in the west, similar to the Genesis (assuming NEC America would have marketed the thing properly, which is an awfully big assumption).

As for software, the list is basically endless... the PCE never got a Contra game (seriously, Konami?).  A proper conversion of the original Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles arcade game would have filled the beat-em-up gap quite nicely.  As would a conversion of the Battle Toads arcade game (it even used one of the PCE's native res modes, 512x224).  Final Fight as a 8 or 12Mbit HuCard would have been pretty faithful, I'd imagine.  Mortal Kombat was originally planned as a PCE *exclusive* but NEC's higher-ups turned it down because they thought the fighting game genre was losing steam (just... lol).  A proper conversion by Irem of R-Type II would have been nice, and completely doable on the PCE.  Black Tiger would also have been dead simple on the PCE using the SAME engine Capcom used for Son Son II (seriously, go play them both back-to-back... they're essentially the same game).  And, yea, the platformer library on the PCE was seriously lacking.  Also, not that I'm a huge sports game fan or anything, but some greater support by EA would have done wonders for the western market.  They finally threw TTI a bone in '93 when they made Madden Duo Football or whatever it was (it was essentially a CD-ROM version of Madden '93), but by then it was too little, too late.

Then there are the quality Jp region games that never made it to the states.  That list is quite long as well.  Rondo of Blood, Gradius I/II, Salamander, Spriggan, Kaze Kiri, SFII' CE.  It goes on and on...

[grahf]

Spenoza, that would have definitely been the way to go, but I don't think they could have done it AND managed to get the CD-ROM2 to market as early as they did.

[RR1980]

wow MK as a PCE exclusive? That would have been a seriously game changer! They thought fighters were on their way out and yet they did all those neo geo fighter port? How wrong were they considering that the fighters genre only got bigger and bigger in the following decade!

[Tatsujin]

The PCE deserved at least three contras.

[RR1980]

The PCE deserved at least three contras.

yup "contra", "super contra" and "F yeah it's Contra again mofo"!

[soop]

BWT, jeez, get more CD games! You have three? No wonder you don't think its so great.

I can't think of anything else I want :/
Oh, I have 4, I forgot Neo Metal fantasy.  And I can't play 2 of them cos my arcade card still hasn't arrived yet.  Hit Japan is way faster that Game of Japan )

But yeah, any suggestions based on what I have already (in my sig) go for it.

[Tatsujin]

The PCE deserved at least three contras.

yup "contra", "super contra" and "F yeah it's Contra again mofo"!

I would say contra (arcade port), Contra Spirits (but in better) and Contra teh hardcore (with much better colors)